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Pachengo Offline You will soon have your God.

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16th April 2015 02:00 AM
Post: #4751
(15th April 2015 09:06 PM)Acelea Wrote:  am and spectre are pretty good in this meta. this meta is all about the hard hitting agi carry

actually they are two of the worst carries right now

any carry that needs significant amounts of farm or a specific expensive item to do anything is worse in this patch

am is nearly useless early to early-mid whereas sniper and troll are useful almost the entire game

spectre needs a radiance to succeed.

medusa suffers the same issues as well (until she can farm skadi and by that point you've either already won or lost)

basically if the carry you are playing cant go high attack speed, eye of skadi, or both, they are somewhat sub-par compared to the others

not to say all carries that cant buy mom or skadi are bad but they are definitely at a disadvantage in this meta

s'why semi carries are so good right now and why 4p1 strats are popular (if they have a very farm dependent carry)

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(This post was last modified: 16th April 2015 02:04 AM by Pachengo.)
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Chilly Offline I am made of Love

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16th April 2015 02:09 AM
Post: #4752
(16th April 2015 02:00 AM)Pachengo Wrote:  spectre needs a radiance to succeed.

but that's wrong

you can do all kinds of shit with just a Diffusal on Spectre

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Pachengo Offline You will soon have your God.

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16th April 2015 02:12 AM
Post: #4753
(16th April 2015 02:09 AM)Chilly Wrote:  but that's wrong

you can do all kinds of shit with just a Diffusal on Spectre

diffusal hasnt been core on spectre for a long time. you get stomped unless you're up against teams weak to diffusal or you're up against sub 3.5k teams. radiance is better all around in terms of damage and especially in terms of pushing power

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(This post was last modified: 16th April 2015 02:32 AM by Pachengo.)
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Chilly Offline I am made of Love

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16th April 2015 02:14 AM
Post: #4754
I'm more specifically referring to Diffusal letting Spectre kill people solo in the early game very easily

of course Radiance is stronger in terms of raw damage, pushing power and farming capability

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Pachengo Offline You will soon have your God.

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16th April 2015 02:17 AM
Post: #4755
(16th April 2015 02:14 AM)Chilly Wrote:  I'm more specifically referring to Diffusal letting Spectre kill people solo in the early game very easily

of course Radiance is stronger in terms of raw damage, pushing power and farming capability

except if you just go straight for radiance (which you should be anyway) you can still get it fairly early if you have any sort of competence in last hitting and by that point your damage output far exceeds diffusal and you can solo kill even easier

you already have good chase power with your Q. hell if youre really having trouble you could get an orb of venom even. the money put into diffusal doesnt justify what you get out of the item compared to radiance rush. thats 65 base damage + 50 damage every second in an aoe around you compared to the 20 + 25 damage you get from diffusal. you dont need the slow from diffusal to secure kills

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(This post was last modified: 16th April 2015 02:20 AM by Pachengo.)
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Phux Away

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16th April 2015 06:42 PM
Post: #4756
Spectre is still okay, still one of the hardest carries albeit more farm dependent than troll and sniper obviously, but all games last longer now and you can snatch a large bounty off a kill when playing from behind by pressing r, she had high winrate last time I checked

AM is garbage though, right now he doesn't do shit early game and gets eclipsed late game by alot of other 6-slotted carries. So for him to be effective your team has to either win the laning stage very convincingly or make a retarded amount of space which is hard when you have heroes like troll warlord demolishing you with just an sny and bkb
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Acelea Away *✲゚*。✧٩(・ิᴗ・ิ๑)۶*✲゚*。✧

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16th April 2015 06:45 PM
Post: #4757
diffusal does however give you raw agi plus the effect, both onto your illusions to secure kills on those squishy supports every time you ulti, not to mention the active is not just for slowing to secure for yourself a kill but is also a purge that purges a lot of things off yourself and enemies. also the slow is significantly better than spectre's (her q is 20% and purge is 100% decreasing to 20% at the end of the 4 sec) so it's better for taking out an important target or someone hasted while dagger is better for chasing stragglers after a fight.

plus spectre is currently sitting at number 8 on winrate for 6.83c with the only agi carry above her being jugg so i'm not sure where you get this idea that she's one of the worst this patch.

i will give you am tho now that i've thought about it. other carries just shit on him with farm, his advantage being that he starts to flash farm when he gets a bf so he can get to that 6 slot faster.

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Chilly Offline I am made of Love

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16th April 2015 09:58 PM
Post: #4758
Thank you

this is what I was talking about. I've been having considerable success with Diffusal rush Spectre lately because it allows me to team fight really early and earn more kills, kills which I can use to build things like Manta and Satanic. It's really strong in the early game because of the slow, the buff purge, the mana burn and the stats it gives. The damage from Diffusal's everything stacking with Desolate is absurd especially against squishy supports.

Of course Radiance is a stronger item, but the problem in this meta specifically is that it's about fighting early and often and trying to safely rush a radiance basically requires Spectre to not fight and farm constantly with a quelling blade, brown boots and TP scrolls cause god help her if she gets ganked.

and if safe farming uninterrupted were easy Anti-Mage wouldn't be complete garbage.

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Phux Away

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16th April 2015 10:39 PM
Post: #4759
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1403023476

look at that graph, I can't do this anymore
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Pachengo Offline You will soon have your God.

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16th April 2015 11:53 PM
Post: #4760
(16th April 2015 09:58 PM)Chilly Wrote:  Thank you

this is what I was talking about. I've been having considerable success with Diffusal rush Spectre lately because it allows me to team fight really early and earn more kills, kills which I can use to build things like Manta and Satanic. It's really strong in the early game because of the slow, the buff purge, the mana burn and the stats it gives. The damage from Diffusal's everything stacking with Desolate is absurd especially against squishy supports.

Of course Radiance is a stronger item, but the problem in this meta specifically is that it's about fighting early and often and trying to safely rush a radiance basically requires Spectre to not fight and farm constantly with a quelling blade, brown boots and TP scrolls cause god help her if she gets ganked.

and if safe farming uninterrupted were easy Anti-Mage wouldn't be complete garbage.

except, like i've already stated, you can have radiance + brown boots at nearly the same timing as your diffusal + power treads or phase.

radiance + brown boots costs 5550 gold

diffusal + treads costs 4550 gold (diffusal + phase costs 4500)

thats only a 1000(1050) gold difference. thats nothing to anyone with any sort of skill in last hitting. we're talking maybe a 1-2 minute time difference on getting these. first item radiance is so much better against almost* every team comp

you wanna talk damage? just look at that other post i made. 50 damage per second aoe + 65 flat damage + your desolate? you will annihilate anything you could face early game with ease. your damage output is so much greater for only 1000 more gold.

your argument for getting it because its good in the early game is invalid because you can get radiance very early too, and its a better option for dominance. only 1 or 2 minutes later than diffusal

*are there certain team comps where diffusal first is better? of course. but an early radiance is much more useful against most team comps.

(16th April 2015 06:45 PM)Acelea Wrote:  diffusal does however give you raw agi plus the effect, both onto your illusions to secure kills on those squishy supports every time you ulti, not to mention the active is not just for slowing to secure for yourself a kill but is also a purge that purges a lot of things off yourself and enemies. also the slow is significantly better than spectre's (her q is 20% and purge is 100% decreasing to 20% at the end of the 4 sec) so it's better for taking out an important target or someone hasted while dagger is better for chasing stragglers after a fight.

plus spectre is currently sitting at number 8 on winrate for 6.83c with the only agi carry above her being jugg so i'm not sure where you get this idea that she's one of the worst this patch.


the radiance aura applies to your illusions as well. again, 50 damage aoe every second. that adds up much faster than diffusal. i already talked about the slow. thats more than enough to secure kills when you have your radiance, and like i said you can get an orb if you're really having that much trouble with keeping up with people (which you will also have phase for after you build that post radiance)

also spectre is at #13, not #8 for win rate. jugg is lower than spectre. jug is actually waaaay lower down the list (although i do take back what i said about her being bad right now. obviously the evidence is against me there, but this is more about radiance > diffusal than whether or not she's good now)

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(This post was last modified: 17th April 2015 12:25 AM by Pachengo.)
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Steb Offline We Can't Afford No Gas

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17th April 2015 12:53 AM
Post: #4761
icefrog says on the dev forum that 6.84 is coming after starladder, so in about 2 weeks

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=10...ost1218412

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Acelea Away *✲゚*。✧٩(・ิᴗ・ิ๑)۶*✲゚*。✧

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17th April 2015 12:56 AM
Post: #4762
i was looking at 6.83 instead of 83c, but regardless 13 is still pretty damn good leaving sniper as the only agi carry above her

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Chilly Offline I am made of Love

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17th April 2015 01:00 AM
Post: #4763
(17th April 2015 12:53 AM)Steb Wrote:  icefrog says on the dev forum that 6.84 is coming after starladder, so in about 2 weeks

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=10...ost1218412

thank the dark lord

now we just need an update for TF2 and some fixes to the valve servers

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Pachengo Offline You will soon have your God.

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17th April 2015 01:26 AM
Post: #4764
(17th April 2015 12:56 AM)Acelea Wrote:  i was looking at 6.83 instead of 83c, but regardless 13 is still pretty damn good leaving sniper as the only agi carry above her

troll warlord too (sorry im just being a smart-ass now)

6.84 hype. sniper and warlord nerfs please icefrog

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(This post was last modified: 17th April 2015 01:31 AM by Pachengo.)
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Acelea Away *✲゚*。✧٩(・ิᴗ・ิ๑)۶*✲゚*。✧

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Today 03:05 AM
Post: #4765
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maybe it's time i finally took all my game knowledge and converted that into mechanical skill

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